Curse

zulu123 · Jun 26, 2006, 02:54 PM // 14:54

I have noticed a new trend since Factions has started. Every group I have been in whether for some quest or a mission insists on getting two monks!!!

I am aware that there are some hellish missions out there like THK, Ring of Pure "Hell" missions, etc. But I think this obsession with two priests each and EVERY time is becoming too much.

And if this game does need two priests for everything then something needs to be changed in the quest/mission design.

AW Lore · Jun 26, 2006, 02:57 PM // 14:57

not *EVERY* mission/quest needs two monks, its just that people have gotten used to the classick team build that has X warriors, X elementalist and two monks.

personally i always have the two healing henchies and the ritualist.

hoyalawya · Jun 26, 2006, 02:59 PM // 14:59

I successfully did THK (the bonus way) and Ring of Fire missions as the sole monk. The key is to work together and wait for the monk to regen. So I would say no you do not need 2 monks in every mission.

Mustache Mayhem · Jun 26, 2006, 03:06 PM // 15:06

I like 4 monks to be safe.. we can't kill anything but who cares my w/mo can just logout when things get bad- I also bring my own healing in mending so they don't have to work so hard.. that's what makes me good and the monks need to do thier job!

one time I went into the fow (spent the last of my money) and the whole group got mad cause the monk drawed some monkeys on him after I pulled the first group back in.. what a loser

DoctorEvil · Jun 26, 2006, 03:09 PM // 15:09

I'm not sure this is a "new" trend, but I will agree that it is an annoying one.

Having 2 monks in a group just gives the groups a little larger margin of error, but aren't necessarily critical to the success of all missions/quests. Unfortunately, people can't get away from the old standards.

Truthfully, since the release of Factions I find that having one Monk and a healing/spirit Ritualist works just fine on most missions, and is even preferable in some cases. Shelter and Union are great for minimizing spike damage and make the Monks job alot easier.

The other thing I notice is that when you only have one Monk and a Ritualist, most PUGs tend to be a little more careful with aggro, movement, slowing down to recharge, etc.....On the other hand, I find that PUGs with two monks often disregard these things, as having two Monks gives them a false sense of security.

Astraea Zopyros · Jun 26, 2006, 03:11 PM // 15:11

No, two monks aren't necessary for every mission and quest. However, in many missions and quests (especially in factions) you are forced to face unbelievably large mobs of high-damage dealing Afflicted, etc. (Vizunah Square, anybody?) In that case, when you have Afflicted spattering shrapnel innards everywhere, it really is helpful to have that second monk--few solo monks could keep up with that (I certainly can't).

wsmcasey · Jun 26, 2006, 03:17 PM // 15:17

I'm going to assume that "Mustache Mayhem" is being sarcastic and move on.

2 monks is great if you can find them. 1 monk and 1 ritualist can work out just fine also. It really depends on the skill of the group as a whole. I mean, you can have 2 good monks on your team, but if the rest of the team sucks you could still lose the mission or quest.

I've played my Ranger in "all ranger groups" before and we didn't require a monk because most rangers bring an evasive skill and self healing. It really just depends on the skill of the players in the group.

SpeedyKQ · Jun 26, 2006, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Two monks (or a monk and rit) does make things easier. You're doubling your total defense but only taking away a small percentage of total offense. A skilled and/or properly specced group can get by with less, but especially when pugging, why take your chances?

The only thing that annoys me is when groups insist on two human monks. The hench can generally get the job done just fine. Why stand around for a half hour competing with three other pugs for that last monk when you can just grab Jamei and go?

Zakarr · Jun 26, 2006, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Unfortunately two monks is more like a requirement than an option. Common players like go berserk and ignore defense because monks will save their asses. Playing as a monk is very boring. Tried playing as smiting monk but so many get upset if I tell them that I'm a smiter. Usually get a kick after invitation. Guild Wars is at best when most of your party members are guild members. Pugs always follow certain formulas when getting party members. That is a pity because the skill system is meant for versatile and interesting builds. It will require teamwork. Most builds are useless with pugs.

Doomlord_Slayermann · Jun 26, 2006, 03:40 PM // 15:40

As I see it you have three options (only one of which is ever commonly considered, as you point out):

Bring two monks
Bring one monk and a good healing ritualist
Bring one monk and a self-heal for everyone

To answer the OP's question, no. You definitely do not need two monks for every 8-man quest/mission in the game.

floplag · Jun 26, 2006, 03:49 PM // 15:49

absolutely not 2 monks are not needed on virtually any mission in the game. ive done THK and Hells precipice with a single monk ... myself... and im not that good a monk

the problem is that noone wants to take responsibility for thier own health and pay any attention.. nor do they want to give up a slot on thier skill bar for a heal, they want to have that monk crutch so they dont have to think

with the powers of the ritualist, a second monk is even less needed now that it was before

in some cases its actually a hinderance to have too much healing as the more healing you bring the less damage you bring... ive sene many mission reach stalemate becuase of this. you get to a point that you cant kill what you need to even though he cant kill you either.

i was in Raisu Palace last night hilariously watching 5 groups of of 6 constantly spamming "GLF 2 monks" for the longest time when there were no available monks to be had at all.

even if you think it IS needed, there just arent enough monks to satisfy this guys ... and you need to start thinking of ways to get by without that crutch, or be prepared to sit and wait for a looooong time. those guys in Raisu... i went through twice and found them still sitting there

bottom line, absolutely not it is not needed, what is needed is more communication and cooperation from the players and a little bit if taking responsibility for thier own arse

Tufty · Jun 26, 2006, 03:55 PM // 15:55

People are just lazy! End of story really. Two monks makes everyones life easier and they dont have to concentrate so hard. Personally I like a challenge and did the convocation mission with just a ritualist to heal. It was a mess but we made it thanks to an astonishing effort from a warrior. There's a monk shortage enough without people hording them. I was on today and some idiot was taking monk only groups. What in the hell use is 8 monks? It's nice to see that there seems to be more of a trend towards balanced groups though nowadays.
I've personally given up on my monk char except for tombs now because people no longer bring there own heals. Ho hum maybe in a month or two I'll dust her off again

ChaoticCoyote · Jun 26, 2006, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by zulu123

I have noticed a new trend since Factions has started. Every group I have been in whether for some quest or a mission insists on getting two monks!!!

I am aware that there are some hellish missions out there like THK, Ring of Pure "Hell" missions, etc. But I think this obsession with two priests each and EVERY time is becoming too much.

And if this game does need two priests for everything then something needs to be changed in the quest/mission design.

No class is essential. The cookie-cutter, formulaic party builds are largely the creation of W/?s who need a specific set of support characters for their poor tactics and lack of imagination.

That said, some scenarios work best with specific professions in the party -- I can think of a few where rangers and elementalists make things easier, and any "escort" mission can use a monk to heal and babysit the escortee.

The idea that this game only requires monks and warriors is silly. I've played through with PuGs, and have created plenty of groups that lack forumals -- heck, we took down Glint without *any* Warriors (thoguh we had a healing and a boon prot monk).

Also, a ritualist can often prove the additional services usually provided by a second monk. My R/Rt carries Flesh of my Flesh, for example, so I can do resurrects and save the monk some energy.

GQ isn't about formulas, it's about using your head.

TheSonofDarwin · Jun 26, 2006, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Two monks are by no means necessary. However, when pugging it's always a good idea to take 2 because you are unsure of the competancy of the monks in question. Even Urgoz doesn't require 2 monks, however (another reason to take 2), you cannot rely on a single person's connection or rely on the err fixes in the game. If you only take 1 and that person is the one who gets hit with the err-stick, then you could have easily boned yourself.

Stixxx · Jun 26, 2006, 04:23 PM // 16:23

No, u dont need 2 monks for every quest/mission. I'd recommend for the harder ones like Thunderhead Keep, Hell's precipice, Ring of Fire u take 2 monks.

Basically it all depends on the team you're in. If you work well together and position yourself in a right way and such you'll be fine with 1 monk.

For example, i managed to get an 8 man team through Hell's precipice as the only monk. How? By simple tactics. Let the ranger lure a couple and kill those, after they're dead let everyone regen before u move to the next group. It takes a bit longer but it gets the job done.

My 2 cents

Manda Panda · Jun 26, 2006, 04:24 PM // 16:24

No, two monks aren't necessary. I play a monk and have managed to heal a full party on my own. Half the time I'm in a two monk group I'm bored because I have little to do.

That said, I prefer to have the extra monk (or healer rit) as a safety net. Monks sometimes lag out, or ragequit, or go mysteriously afk, or just plain suck. I'd rather not have to redo a mission because we lost the only monk near the end.

nugzta · Jun 26, 2006, 04:26 PM // 16:26

When I play as monk and do quests/missions with henchies (which I mostly do), Im the only monk in the group.

mega_jamie · Jun 26, 2006, 05:04 PM // 17:04

I did FoW the other day with 2Ws, 2Es A necro, 2 Rits and a Monk.

Monk droped 5 mins into it, and I was the only healer of the group (the other Rit was channeling/interupting mainly) We managed to clear up to the beach, and were doing fiarly well, a couple of all died except me moments, but we coulda done very well, until people had to leave for the World Cup games.

So now, you dont need 2 monks, hell, some places can be done with no primary healer lines at all.

ubermancer · Jun 26, 2006, 05:09 PM // 17:09

I have solo monk'd (as in with a group) at least the following, and more:

Thunderhead Keep
Abaddon's Mouth
Hell's Precipice
Fissure of Woe
-- not done UW yet, pretty sure I could though
Tombs of Primeval Kings
Vizuana Square
Arborstone
Unwaking Waters
Raisu Palace

Each of those I got Master's on, btw... Vizuana, Unwaking and Raisu were Masters on first try, but my first Arborstone team was sorely prepaired to fight the Dredge.

Kern Wolf · Jun 26, 2006, 06:09 PM // 18:09

No, you do NOT need 2 monks for every mission/quest. A good Rit can help enormously, as well as having/explaining the need for all party members to be PATIENT. Having a balanced group is nice, but in no way an absolute must.